Icicle Challenge and whatnot
Posted about 1 year ago by notsnotNot that I'll even place, but wondering if there's going to be an Icicle Challenge (or whatever you want to call it) this year? I'm pretty much a pussy when it's below about 40F, but I also figured I'd poll you guys for what you wear when it's ch-chattering cold and you want to (or have to) ride. Or tricks, etc.
(I've got a lot of running miles I have to do to train for a marathon in April, but mixing in a lot of riding and swimming makes it a lot less brutal and demoralizing. And what works for 35F on a bike will work for 20F on foot.)
Replies
Well, I'll be riding one way or another so I'm all for having a contest.
Here is rough guide of what I wear based on temperature (F):
55+ : shorts, tshirt
50 - 55 : shorts, long-sleeved tshirt
sub-50 : switch to pants (usually my casual work pants, or I have rain pants for wet weather)
45 - 50 : light bike jacket with tshirt under
sub-45 : add light gloves
sub-40 : switch to long-sleeved shirt under jacket
sub-35 : switch to heavier gloves, add thin head covering under helmet
sub-20 : add face mask
sub-10 : add thin thermal underlayer under shirt
sub-5 : add warm tights under pants, extra or thicker socks.
The coldest I've biked is around -4F and this has worked so far. Of course you have to adjust for wind chill and road conditions. I count on a decent pace (avg 16-17mph) to generate heat. Do some jumping jacks before you leave the house to get the blood flowing on colder days!
I find gloves useless.. Maybe okay for ~10C (~45F), but once it gets below freezing it is mittens all the way!
For the challenge, I think the scoring formula should be something like:
points = distance * exp(-T/2)
And, the rule is to try and determine an average ride time temperature. This is especially important for a few hours after sunrise and a few hours after sunset, when temperatures are changing rapidly.
One final edit :P
We might as well start running beta scoring again for December, to make sure the bugs are ironed out early. This time around, put the temperature as a tag. Format should be sign, one or two digits for temperature, and a F or C for units.
Might as well let me do the temperature averaging too, if you like, so if you put two temperature tags, I'll grab them both and take the average.
If anyone has ideas on implementation, let me know.
Wow, mikepop, you're pretty...hardcore. I can do about 40F before I have to go to fingered gloves. My coldest parts are my ears (tuck 'em under a bandanna?) and my toesies - my fingers felt great at 45 on Saturday, and my toes were meat on the ends of my legs by the end of an hour ride.
my progression is relatively similar to mikepop's except with more wool.
basically ...
50 - 45 jersey + wool armwarmers + fleece tights + wool socks
45 - 35 above + 2nd wool long sleeve layer + gloves + hat/toque
35 - 25 swap hat/toque for full balaclava + rain jacket to block wind
25 - 15 swap light gloves for lobster claw mittens + fleece booties for cycling shoes
15 - 5 second pair of leg warmers
5 - -5 second pair of liner gloves under lobster claws, additional knit cap underneath balaclava, 2nd pair socks
I haven't commuted in too many days below -5 F in New England.
basically, the idea is to insulate the core and continue beefing up extremities as it gets colder. Also invest in wind blocking and waterproof/water-resistant fabrics for wearing at below 40F.
(temps are mostly a rough approximation since I'm not as familiar with fahrenheit)
I could probably use a good pair of mittens.
notsnot, you can definitely cover your ears under a bandana. That's what I did before I bought a thin hat to wear under my helmet.
I should have also mentioned that my commute is about seven miles, and it takes me about a half hour to ride it in winter conditions.
oh, the other thing I would add -- though this is more supposition than proven fact -- don't leave home on an empty stomach. You need the calories both to keep you going and to keep you warm. Personally, I've found that I am more comfortable when I've had a snack before I head out to ride -- though it's a relatively marginal improvement. The biggest slice of pizza in the world is no replacement for a good insulating layer.
good grief! I've pretty much decided I won't ride in anything under 30F (and that's if it's not freezing raining/sleeting/snowing), but then again, I'm originally from Cali., and even western WA is pretty mild.
That said, I've been taking notes about what I'm wearing for my commute these days, and this is what it looks like IIRC:
50+: capilene tights, workout capris, bike jersey, rain jacket, fingerless gloves
45-50: switch to heavier jersey or wool sweater, sometimes switch to finger gloves (I have a pair of cheapo knit gloves). I often find I change gloves in the middle of my ride at this temp.
40-45: definitely the wool sweater, definitely the full-finger gloves. add a pair of thin roll-up hiking pants. (http://www.rei.com/product/761557) maybe an extra pair of socks.
35-40: lighter of my 2 jerseys under the sweater. definitely an extra pair of socks.
I've only ridden below 35 a few times, so I don't have a clear system yet. (earmuffs? hat? heavier gloves?) The one and only time I rode in 25-ish degree weather (last Feb), I wore my usual gloves with a pair of lined leather dress gloves over them.
The wool sweater has been the most awesome addition to my bike clothing lineup this fall. I found an old dress turtleneck that finally fit again, but is too warm for the office, and tried it out for biking. OMG. So comfortable. Now I'm nuts about wool. :) I bought wool "snow" socks over the weekend and I'm loving them.
I really should start eating something before I leave home. It's just so early, and I'm not hungry, and I can't imagine getting up any earlier than I already do this time of year! But I do make sure to have something I can eat as soon as I get to the office, and that perks me up.
Okay, basic script is done. The formula is:
distance * [exp(-T1 / 4) + exp(-T2 / 4) + ... + exp (-Tn / 4)]/n
So, you can enter as many temperature tags as you feel like for any ride. If you don't enter any temperatures, 16C/58F is assumed. If you enter temps higher than 16C, your honesty is reducing your score :) (which is a good thing, silly!)
Here are some calcs, but I'm sure big changes will occur as soon as people get around to filling in all the information.
1) spokenword 77.76
2) notsnot 66.22
3) mikepop 45.65
4) sbatterman 20.16
5) epersonae 8.13
6) sequential 3.66
7) mathowie 1.76
8) JeffL 1.03
9) hydrophonic 0.98
10) Chuckles 0.87
11) maudlin 0.14
oh, I wasn't even entering anything on days above 32F. will adjust accordingly!
Some new numbers.. Maybe exponential growth is a little too aggressive :)
1) mikepop 425.55
2) Chuckles 231.83
3) spokenword 77.76
4) notsnot 72.82
5) maudlin 45.57
6) sbatterman 25.64
7) epersonae 14.72
8) mathowie 6.89
9) sequential 3.99
10) JeffL 1.64
11) hydrophonic 0.98
12) fijiwriter 0.62
No! No! I LIKE these numbers! :-)
(Seriously, if I'm in 5th place with my pathetic mileage, something is off. Yeah, maybe some tweaking would be good.)
Hey! It just started snowing in Dallas! Things are looking up for me!
And I'll be declaring a "Hellfire Challenge" next August when it's 105F here for weeks on end.
perhaps as a suggestion, besides revising not to use exponential growth, also set the formula so that rides in positive temperatures contribute a reduced fraction of points, but don't actually reduce one's score.
In any of these challenges, any condition where can penalize themselves by going out to ride seems counterproductive.
I assume that if you enter just one temp in the tags it takes that as the average? I notice that when I put 52F, 52F as tags that the site reduces it to just a single 52F tag.
Oh, one question. Should we factor in wind chill when we tag the temperatures? It was -11, but -20 or so with wind chill this weekend, I know.
No wind chill, silly :)
One or more temperatures, however many temps you split it up into, they are all given equal weight.
It doesn't go negative for high temperatures. The thing is, it defaults to 16C, so if you enter 20C you will end up with a lower score than the default. I'll kill that for January, I think, because if you don't enter a temp you don't deserve credit at all :)
I'll think about alternative functions.. but exponential is so nice in so many ways..
Sure, if you're Canadian ...
Just kidding, I rode today for the first time in ages in sub-freezing temperatures, and I don't envy any of you who are stuck with that for the next x months. It wasn't bad, you can dress for it, but I'm sure it gets old after awhile.
My biggest gripe is with my facemask - pulling it aside to clear my nose every so often, and it never fits back correctly. Ack.
(yeah, I know there's a joke there with my username)
Hey! I was saving that joke for flu-ridden January!
I have a lightweight balaclava that's wonderful at keeping my face warm but not parboiled, but it pushes the tip of my nose down, and I hate that. Today I just flung one end of a scarf over my lower face and was fine.
I do the scarf thing from time to time, but find that it tends to interfere with my ability to shoulder check in traffic (and I've not yet made the plunge into utter bike nerditude that is investing in a helmet mirror)
normally I ride with a balaclava that doesn't have a face mask and just the lower edge of the fabric over my chin. Covering my mouth tends to push breath vapor up into my glasses when at a stop, and I don't find breathing through the fabric at all comfortable.
My biggest gripe about winter riding is that it just multiplies the number of things that I have to put on to go outside, and just increases the likelihood that I'll forget something that isn't essential to battling the cold (like my wallet)
Some more numbers..
Under the exponential based system (distance x exp[-T/4]):
1) Chuckles 1885.39
2) sequential 827.88
3) mikepop 488.42
4) spokenword 428.22
5) notsnot 136.75
6) sbatterman 97.28
7) maudlin 88.02
8) mathowie 87.13
9) epersonae 26.87
10) hydrophonic 1.97
11) JeffL 1.64
12) fijiwriter 0.62
Under the old linear system (distance x -T if T<0):
(the logic here may not have been perfect, but good enough for comparison purposes)
1) Chuckles 1175.05
2) sequential 910.50
3) mikepop 404.52
4) spokenword 404.18
5) notsnot 127.85
6) maudlin 104.47
7) sbatterman 81.25
8) mathowie 72.51
9) hydrophonic 1.97
10) JeffL 1.64
11) fijiwriter 0.62
12) epersonae 0.09
thanks, Chuckles. here's to hopes for more challenging weather in the new year.
best of luck to everyone else, as well. stay safe, stay healthy and Happy New Year.
I looked back at last years threads and relearned that a scale factor of exp(-T/10) actually works pretty well:
http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15653/Yay-first-...
Here are new results for that formula.
1) sequential 786.59
2) Chuckles 496.32
3) mikepop 493.25
4) spokenword 355.00
5) sbatterman 237.59
6) hydrophonic 214.99
7) notsnot 162.23
8) mathowie 134.88
9) JeffL 122.31
10) maudlin 72.28
11) epersonae 66.22
12) fijiwriter 6.82
13) forallmankind 5.15
And, I guess those are also final scores, for the beta..
Note that you can't add multiple tags at the same temperature, but you can enter decimal temps. So....
If you are out riding for a few hours, please enter temperatures that reflect the actual temps on the road, like:
-12C, -14C, -14.1C, -15C
Of course we don't have to get too obsessed about the little details, but with exponential scaling a small fudge can mean a big score difference on those cold days.
what kind of format does the data from your scripts end up in? a csv file? if you can automatically put that on the web somewhere after it runs each day, maybe I can rig something up so we can see daily updates.
Well, initially I chose not to run it every day because of server load. Thinking about it, it can't really be that bad. There are 140 odd member pages to scrape, with a handfull of members having several pages of results. Less than 200 page loads total.
Anyway, I just output a text file with line by line results. Basically formatted as you see above, but WeEndure strips some white space.
Do you think having the results hosted on a second site would be useful? I'd much rather see it update a thread here, and in principal it shouldn't be hard to do. I actually sat down to write an autoposting routine a few weeks ago. I needed to figure out how to get python to login at WeEndure, and WeEndure was down that day (and maybe the next).. I've never got back to it :)
well, I don't know if it would be useful but it might be easier than figuring out all that login stuff. I was just going to try slurping up the csv into google docs or something and make a chart since I've been wanting to play with that anyway.